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baptism

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Rheyana Rose	baptism	Lead	[-]
Posts: 199 (04/16/04 03:29:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None What does Paul teach on baptism verses Peter? From the mail bag of the Berean Bible Society site. From Norway: "The dominating doctrines in Scandinavian Christendom right now are those who do not separate Peter's teaching from Paul's. .." R.K"
Gods Trombone	Re: baptism	#1	[-]
Posts: 641 (04/17/04 09:19:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* What does Paul teach on baptism verses Peter? RRose, As I understand your question, and the quote : The Gospel PAUL called "My Gospel" was given to him by Christ directly and had little or nothing in common with the command of water baptism in the Kingdom Gospel of Peter and the 12, except that the two "overlapped" for a time; e.g., Paul was saved under the Kingdom Gospel and was water baptized by Ananias, and only later moved away completely from water baptism with the doctrine of Spirit baptism. Peter and the 12 were still preaching their water baptism gospel until they completed their ministry to the circumcision or they died. Not sure which came first. LINK TO GODS TROMBONE What Is Jesus Doing? (WIJD?)
Rheyana Rose	Re: baptism	#2	[-]
Posts: 199 (04/20/04 13:27:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, that's what I was asking about. Thank you. I find that peter says... Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. And yet... Acts 8 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. We read in the book of acts that the Holy Ghost either falls on people or is received by the laying on of hands and prayer. These people spoke in tongues. But some received the spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues BEFORE they were water baptized. We see evidence of that in Acts 10 for the house of Cornelius. Do you feel that tongues is still present today? I'm not necessarily speaking of prophecy in tongues. I know you've posted that you don't know enough about this area. But still, is it possible especially if you mentioned that Paul talked of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Some people dismiss tongues because they reason it has been done away with.
Gods Trombone	Re: baptism	#3	[-]
Posts: 641 (04/21/04 09:56:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Acts 8 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. OK: The disciples who were prayed for to receive the Holy Ghost were not present at Pentecost. Those who laid hands upon them were present at Pentecost and had the Holy Spirit on them. *Quote:* We read in the book of acts that the Holy Ghost either falls on people or is received by the laying on of hands and prayer. These people spoke in tongues. But some received the spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues BEFORE they were water baptized. We see evidence of that in Acts 10 for the house of Cornelius. God poured out the Holy Ghost upon them so that the Apostles would see the sign that they were accepted by God and therefore could go on to water baptism. *Quote:* Do you feel that tongues is still present today? I'm not necessarily speaking of prophecy in tongues. I know you've posted that you don't know enough about this area. But still, is it possible especially if you mentioned that Paul talked of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Rose- I have spoken in what I believed a the time were Spirit led tongues, or should I say "valid tongues" and have seen and heard others; however, now that I understand the Gospel of the mystery that Paul taught, I am of the opinion that precious few, if any of the demonstrations we see today are of the Lord. Those people are in great error from the true Gospel in that they ignore the letters of Paul dispensationally and build their church on Peter.Now, the baptism by the Holy Spirit that we see Paul teaching is when a person becomes a new creature in Christ- they are baptized into the body of Christ BY the Holy Spirit. That's what Paul taught- and he did not teach water baptism- and OT requirement. Any help? LINK TO GODS TROMBONE What Is Jesus Doing? (WIJD?)
graceismine	Re: baptism	#4	[-]
Posts: 6 (04/22/04 20:57:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi I followed you guys here. GT Would you please elaborate a bit further for me. I don't understand why you say Paul was saved under "the kingdom Gospel". I thought Paul had direct revelation of the mysteries of the church from Jesus Himself. He got zapped! Tongues in my opinion is still for today but has become seriously perverted in church life. Justified by Faith, Standing in Grace
Rheyana Rose	Re: baptism	#5	[-]
Posts: 199 (04/23/04 09:59:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hey Grace. Stick around. *Quote:* GT posted, OK: The disciples who were prayed for to receive the Holy Ghost were not present at Pentecost. Those who laid hands upon them were present at Pentecost and had the Holy Spirit on them. I think if you knew what I've experienced you might not reason this away so simply. The Holy Ghost is still falling on people and they are still speaking in tongues. God is no respecter of persons therefore it doesn't take the original apostles to impart the Spirit through the laying on of hands exclusively from them. However, I might not believe it myself if I wasn't one of those today. In my prayer time or praise time with God, I mingle my prayer language of tongues with english. You know me. I'm real. I'm not into exaggeration or emotionalism. I would encourage you to seek God and explore this area with His help. He might be trying to show you something more through me as He often shows me things through you. *Quote:* I am of the opinion that precious few, if any of the demonstrations we see today are of the Lord. I would have to agree when considering some of the mainline denominations. When I hear them claiming sacraments save us, I cringe. Or when they start to practice with liberty what was from the first considered sin in the eyes of God, I know they have strayed from the Truth. *Quote:* Now, the baptism by the Holy Spirit that we see Paul teaching is when a person becomes a new creature in Christ- they are baptized into the body of Christ BY the Holy Spirit. That's what Paul taught- and he did not teach water baptism-and OT requirement. But did He encouarge water baptism as part of our walk with the Lord?
MaricoG		#6	[-]
Posts: 8 (07/16/08 16:38:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would like to post a page that my friend Kab posted on another site. I think it helps to explain a lot about baptism today. See what you think. "It's been a busy week. Thanks for being patient. I think your comments on "dispensation" are right on the mark. In Scripture, dispensation doesn't indicate a time as much as it indicates an economy. Before I continue(and forget)here is a link to an article that gives the clearest, most precise, explanation of dispensationalism, or rightly dividing Scripture, that I've found to date. http://www.matthewmcgee.org/dispensa.html A couple of folks here are familiar with it. Would you, and anybody who is interested, give it a read and let me know what you think about it? It will give us a good foundation for continued discussion, and will no doubt prompt more questions and comments. King James said, "You asked: where in Scripture are we told to be water baptized after Salvation? Thanks for asking , I do appreciate that question and its a good one. We find in Acts 16 something very interesting...We see that Paul baptized new converts AFTER HE KNEW ABOUT THE ' Gospel of the Grace." Not only that this Gospel of Grace was known by all of the apostles. We read that Peter knew " through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."in Acts 11:15, and So does Paul In Acts 16.....but this hits it right on the head.." Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ , and thou shalt be saved." Now, one can't do that under the law now can they?" King, keep in mind that Acts is a transitional book; the history of God moving from one dispensation to another; the beginning of the record of God temporarily setting aside the nation of Israel and turning His attention primarily to the Gentiles. In short, the ushering in of a new message, messenger, and audience. You referenced Acts 11:15. Let's go back to Acts 10 and take a look at the account that Peter is talking about. Acts 10:9-16 gives the account of God lowering the sheet containing unclean animals. Why did God do this? To prepare Peter to go to Cornelius and his household. Did Peter understand this vision? No. v 17 "Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean..." But, Peter still followed the prompting of the Holy Spirit. 19 "While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee." 20 "Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them." Now let's move down to verse 34 where Peter starts to preach to Cornelius and his household. What does Peter preach? The same gospel that has been preached to the nation of Israel; the one that includes John the Baptist's water baptism for salvation. 37 "That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached." Now, before Peter can finish his preaching, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." They couldn't believe the Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit! 45 "And they of the cirumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost." Why were they astonished? Well for several reasons, but let's look at just one for now. What did Peter say in Acts 2:38? 38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." There are some differences between Acts 2 and Acts 10. Peter's audience is Gentile instead of Jewish. and the order of Salvation is changing. In chapter 2 it's, Repent Be water baptized Receive the Holy Spirit In chapter 10 it's, Receive the Holy Spirit Be water baptized God is in the process of changing the means and the order of Salvation and the primary audience to whom it is and will continue to be directed. King, you also referenced Acts 16. What was it the jailor said in v 30? 30 "...Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" What did Paul and Silas tell him? 31 "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." They told the jailor to just "believe". Nothing else. At this point, water baptism is an afterthought in v 33. King James said, "but this hits it right on the head.." Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ , and thou shalt be saved." Now, one can't do that under the law now can they?" Brother, you are absolutely right! The law requires more than just belief. So, what are the changes we've seen in just these few passages of Scripture? Acts 2-Repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Spirit Acts 10-Receive the Holy Spirit, be baptized Acts 16-Believe This goes bact to my comment that Acts is a book of transition. "The purpose of my life is to worship God with all my heart, model the character of my Saviour Jesus Christ, be a minister of His grace, a messenger of His word, and a magnifier of His glory." Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Love, Mari
Gods Trombone		#7	[-]
Posts: 631 (07/22/08 04:55:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Mari, Very good coverage of this. Another point is significant , that is, after the Acts 10 incident when Cornelius and his group were saved, Peter went back to Jerusalem and seems to have forgotten about the incident since he does nothing about it. Only twelve years later, at the Acts 15 council does he bring it up when his memory is "jogged." This indicates that God planned the Acts 10 incident so that Peter could give some support to Paul's ministry in Acts 15. Gods Trombone DE-CONFUSION CHAMBER
MaricoG		#8	[-]
Posts: 9 (07/23/08 21:59:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	OH...excellent GT! Thanks for that insight! "The purpose of my life is to worship God with all my heart, model the character of my Saviour Jesus Christ, be a minister of His grace, a messenger of His word, and a magnifier of His glory." Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Love, Mari
Gods Trombone		#9	[-]
Posts: 632 (07/25/08 03:40:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Mari, Please add me to your prayers. I am struggling with a sciatic condition in my back and leg. Also, some spiritual battles. Thanks! Gods Trombone DE-CONFUSION CHAMBER
Gods Trombone	Missed This Post- Sorry	#10	[-]
Posts: 633 (07/25/08 03:57:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Rheyana Rose wrote: Hey Grace. " src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif"> Stick around. *Quote:* GT posted, OK: The disciples who were prayed for to receive the Holy Ghost were not present at Pentecost. Those who laid hands upon them were present at Pentecost and had the Holy Spirit on them. I think if you knew what I've experienced you might not reason this away so simply. The Holy Ghost is still falling on people and they are still speaking in tongues. God is no respecter of persons therefore it doesn't take the original apostles to impart the Spirit through the laying on of hands exclusively from them. However, I might not believe it myself if I wasn't one of those today. In my prayer time or praise time with God, I mingle my prayer language of tongues with english. You know me. I'm real. I'm not into exaggeration or emotionalism. I would encourage you to seek God and explore this area with His help. He might be trying to show you something more through me as He often shows me things through you. *Quote:* I am of the opinion that precious few, if any of the demonstrations we see today are of the Lord. I would have to agree when considering some of the mainline denominations. When I hear them claiming sacraments save us, I cringe. Or when they start to practice with liberty what was from the first considered sin in the eyes of God, I know they have strayed from the Truth. *Quote:* Now, the baptism by the Holy Spirit that we see Paul teaching is when a person becomes a new creature in Christ- they are baptized into the body of Christ BY the Holy Spirit. That's what Paul taught- and he did not teach water baptism-and OT requirement. But did He encouarge water baptism as part of our walk with the Lord? Rose, I somehow didn't see your post until now, sorry! Paul had progressive revelation from Christ in heaven and eventually he taught the "one baptism" which is every believer being baptized into Christ BY the Holy Spirit. On "tongues" I wonder if the Lord does allow some prayer in an unknown language in some circumstances. I still don't know. I do see tongues as primarily belonging to the kingdom dispensation, which makes them "out of place" for us in general. Gods Trombone DE-CONFUSION CHAMBER

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